NC Parking lot bans Obama supporters

This is where the reporting of this local tv station fails. There are quite a few things left to be figured out here:

Is the sign racially or politically motivated?

Is the lot owner offended by Obama's candidacy because of his race, his political leanings or his lack of experience.

These are key questions that should've been asked of the guy, but that weren't. All we can do is guess.

"I take offense at Mr. Obama running for president."

Of course he takes offense that a black man has the audacity to run for president. While he may have supported Bush, I doubt he was offended that Gore and Kerry ran.

w8in

Nothing you said should matter at all and bears no importance on what happened, 

When you start banning people because of political affiliation, race, or whatever, you are officially being a dick. A big @!$%#ing dick. 

Furthermore, his lack of experience is a joke. Our experienced gov't brought us the great depression 2. Followed by world war 3. Your being used, and these guys are getting rich. 

NowYouSee,

I'm not disagreeing with anything you say there. I'm just saying that the report doesn't give us vital info that gives clarity on the situation. I would've liked the parking lot owner to tell us why he put the sign up. It's such a simple question. But we were left to guess or make up our own mind about his motives.

Bad journalism, that's all I'm trying to say.

Now you see:

You started out right, the guy is being a dick.

But then fell into partisan bs.  Too bad.

Nah, just because you want to believe certain things are not possible does not make what I said any less true based on the facts. The Truth doesnt care what party did what, its not partisan to speak the truth of what has happened to America. The neo-cons have stolen elections, created false wars and sold them to us, and created the economic situation we find ourselves in, on purpose, These are truths, we will simply have to agree to disagree.

Furthermore,

I wouldnt be shocked if certain democrats were involved with the Neo-Cons. Its a political faction, the way Hamilton defined it, they have their own ideology, their own foreign policy, their own religion, their own everything. They are despots. This is truth. Sorry wmolaw, but Im not afraid of the truth.

But it is his property...

This action MAY (I don't know for sure) fall into the same category as separating black from white at lunch counters and water fountains. I don't know.

In any event, it's juvenile. Kind of like a little boy throwing a tantrum when refused a cookie by his mother. Why are these things happening more right now? Is it because Obama is black and running for President? Yes...but it's happening more because he is AHEAD in the polls.

Heart of Atlanta Motel Inc. v. United States 379 U.S. 241 (1964) is probably the precedent.  Discrimination by a business owner was a violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.  The act banned discrimination in public places, particularly in public accommodations, largely based on Congress' control of interstate commerce.  A parking lot could be considered part of interstate commerce.

The parking lot owner, besides being a jerk, could become a much poorer jerk once the legal dust as settled.

Jo-Jo:

What, democrats are a protected class now?  I don't think so.

Seems to me all you are saying is that whenever anyone says that they don't like Obama, it has to be because the person is a racist, and that's bs and playing the race card.

Why do the lefties  play the race card all the time?  Hell, this guy could just hate the socialist policies of Obama, I know I do.

Nope, I'm not saying the bully is a racist bully, just a bully.  Hey, if he wants everyone to know that he's a bully, it's not my fault.  I'm just pointing out that he is a bully.  Sorry if that does not meet with your approval.

Discrimination is only illegal if it's based on color, creed, religion, gayness, etc., as wmolaw says, a "protected class" (boy I hate that phrase).  Our language is going to hell, nobody really seems to understand what the word discrimiation even means.

I'm pretty sure the owner is on legally secure ground.  Discrimination is only forbidden against certain protected classes, which consist of, among others, race, religion, national origin, disability and veteran status.  Political beliefs are not protected.  If the person discriminated against is not discriminated against due to his/her membership in a protected class, the business owner is free to business or not with him/her at his own free will, just as the potential consumer is free to patronize whatever business he/she chooses.  (Although one cannot be prosecuted for failing to patronize a business due to the membership in a protected class of its proprietor or employees.)

Yes it is similar. And that was offensive and racist.

The ONLY people who should be offended are American's who are being pushed aside by mindless "PC" ideology. 

BTW: I'm certainly not a McSame supporter....

I do respect that it is his business and he has the right to be a kook if he chooses.  But what you have to take in consideration is that in a lot of counties of NC state employees would have to walk great distances to find a parking space.  Also you pay these people in advance to park.  So he needs to reimburse them their money if they already haven't demanded it.  I feel sorry for them because I know how far the walk tends to be.  I wish the state would just go ahead and buy up space for these people to park instead of giving private citizens this kind of power.

Chris:

Racist?  You mean against all non English speaking people?  A stretch, don't you think?

And, know what, the first amendment (which I know many far left Obama supporters wish to do away with) allows this guy to say offensive things.

Or would you do away with that right?

If the owner denies state employees the right to park in his lot, after they've entered into a contract with him to be allowed to park there, he's obviously in breach of contract.  The plaintiffs would be entitled to at least a partial refund, and possibly a full refund. 

Or alternatively, the employees could sue for an order of specific performance, to require, under force of arms (from the county Sheriff), that the owner allow the employees to park there, at least until the end of the contract (probably the end of the month). While that would be less preferable, probably, to the employees, it would be poetic justice.

Chris:

Having a hard time reading my posts?  I am not "condoning" these actions.

You, sir, are condoning pulling out the "race" card whenever you see something you don't like.

That's what this whole political season has been about, though people deny it.  Race, race, and more race.

By the way, how the hell can it be "racist" to discriminate against ALL people who don't speak English?  What "race" do they belong to?  The "Non English Speaking Race?"

Clarity of thought and word is very desirous and furthers understanding and communication.

Chris:

You didn't pull the race card?

Yes racist. You are the one who is stretching if you don't think that discriminating against someone who doesn't speak English isn't racist or at least has racists overtones. And this parking lot attendant is absolutely discriminating against those who do not share his political beliefs.

What the heck is that?  That is the gold race card.

And this, Chris, is the exact description of the road to tryanny!

If you are standing up for this mans actions, you are condoning them.

I stand up for the FREEDOM in this Country and such freedom REQUIRES that @!$%#s be allowed to do assholish things.

I am not condoning his actions, but I understand, as you do not seem to, that for freedom to exist one must suffer idiots.

Your way, is the clear road to tyranny.  I don't want to take that road, thank you.

I tell you, this "  " function stinks.  Think I wil just go back to typing in the html language.

Racist or not, it's clearly discriminatory. I'm not sure you could exclude democrats from your place of business any more than you could exclude catholics or short people. Not every act of discrimination is racially motivated.

Wheel:

People discriminate day in, day out.  It's part of life.  Get used to it.

For it to be actionable, you need to discriminate against a protected class in a manner that is violative of a law.

This ain't.

Ironically, when a business owner chooses to limit their patronage for whatever reason, they are usually cutting off their nose to spite their face.  During an economic slowdown a business owner who refuses income for their convictions is usually only rewarded by those who are ignortant of them, or those that totally agree.--Anyone remember BK sneakers??

Anyone remember BK sneakers??

BK sneakers?  Were they made out of hamburger patties?

British Knights, yo.

Roger:

As far as I know today (though admittedly I don't practice in this area) the only two truly "protected" classes are race (black) and sex.  Sexual preference is in a gray area.

So, no, political affiliation is not "a protected class" as far as I know.  There are certain laws that impinge on this area, but they would have to do with employees generally, not "customers."

Discrimination is not allowed on the basis of creed.  Creed is a system of beliefs, opinions or principles.

I doubt that this story would have even made the news if the sign had barred McCain/Palin supporters.

You may well be right in your supposition; but, as a Liberal, I have to say, if McCain supporters had been barred, it still should be an issue. "Fair" cuts both ways.

I don't see it as an issue whether it is an Obama/Biden sign, or whether it is a McCain/Palin sign.

It's the guy's property and the guy's business, and he's not breaking the law.

If anybody's rights are being violated, it's the owner's first amendment rights.  Where's the ACLU when you need them?

I think I know why

I do also, he would be very malleable and easily controlled.

Actually, the old man has shown how easily controlled he is, going way back to Vietnam when he gave away secrets for cigarettes, all the way up to today when he sold himself out of Keating, and has flipflopped on every single issue.

Bigger;

Note, you are scum.  I sinerely hope that some day you are in the positin of being tortured for years, and we shall see just how your hypocritical crap will stand up to having your arms broken, etc., etc.

If McCain was a race, I would say you are surely racist.

But, hey, why not vote for a muslim terrorist, the way you seem to wish to do?  Why not vote for someone who hates whites, hates America, wishes to see it destroyed, the way you seem to wish to?

See, idiotic statements are easy to make.

Chris, you may delete away.

Chris:

I don't think so.  In fact, the hypocrisy goes the other way.

What is being exhibited on this thread is very muddled lefty thinking:

Free speech, ownership of property, freedom itself is fine, but only so long as it is speech, actions, and "freedom" that lefties believe in.

If it is not, then it is somehow wrong and must be stopped.

That ain't freedom, that is tyranny Chris, pure, absolute tyranny.

He's not a muslim or a terrorist, wmolaw.

Lisa:

I was not saying he was.  You misread my post.

But, hey, why not vote for a muslim terrorist, the way you seem to wish to do?

Yeah I guess I misread that.

Lisa:

I was not referring to Obama, though if the shoe fits, eh?

Ah, another race card user.

What makes you think this has anything to do with race, except that, seemingly, for you, it is all about race.

Of course this doesn't surprise me look where it happend.

Before you malign the Old North State, why don't you check out the polls in NC?  Hint:  NC tends to be colored a certain tint of blue.  (Carolina blue, thank you very much.  Let us bear witness -- this is the one time I want to see more Duke blue than Carolina blue.)

No law its not about race, it has never been about race.....but Hmm....lemme see.....oh yeah.........Sarah Palin and John McCain saw fit to drag it out kicking and screaming like a pig stuck in a hole.

Blue is blue---regardless of where it comes from.  I'm California Blue living in Florida purple haze.

However, if taken a bit further......... what would happen if everyone who runs a parking lot or a store or laundromat could pose a litmus test to the customer? The only way you could procure your product or service would be to correctly answer a series of questions about your politics or associates?

Well, then you'd forgo a large portion of your profits.  Someone would then, hopefully, open a new store that serves everyone, make more money, be able to innovate and expand, and put the litmus-test-using store owner out of business.

This whole story of this dude is kind of silly. It pretty much comes down to that it sucks for democrats looking for parking in Gibsonville, so that's about 4 people who are going to have to walk far. Not saying I agree with this dude - he may or may not have had grounds to do what he did, but I guess I'd find myself more concerned if it was a big corporation telling its employees to vote for McCain - now THAT would be messed up.

That is just downright STUPID, IGNORANT, and RACIALLY MOTIVATED BY SARAH PALIN

Uh, okay. You are probably right, Sarah made him do it.; Damn, how did you find out?

Rebecca, gosh you seem to be psychic, being able to tell all about those people's motivations just by watching the idiot box or seeing signs in yards.  I'm impressed!!

My mom and friends have been telling me about the huge amount of support Obama has back home in NC.  I wish I could see it.  I have longed for the year when NC would turn blue.  I pray this is the year. 

I even hear Elizabeth Dole is struggling to keep her seat.

I think the fact that so many new people moved from out of state to Research Triangle Park has helped with providing Obama support in NC.

Charlotte too. My parents are yankee transplants living there. But there's also a lot ton of colleges in NC, and college communities tend to lean democratic.

Charlotte typically leans Republican, but it's also a massive banking center, particularly for Wachovia.  Since a lot of Charlotteans are kinda fearful for their jobs, the Charlotte area is actually tilting Democratic for this election.

And regarding college communities, like Asheville, Chapel Hill and Durham, I feel that "lean" Democratic is a little too soft.  "Are ridiculously Democratic" probably would fit better.

Also, North Carolina has a large African-American community, which is extremely pumped for Obama, and registering and voting in huge numbers.

Don't forget Greensboro! There're a lot of ridiculous democrats there too! :)

But really...what kind of "humor" is that?

The guy is an adult and an American. he should know what kind of reactions this draws in a country with a racial segregation history.

Apparently that was the problem.  People making assumptions and coming to their own conclusions as to his motives.

I kiddingly tell Democrat's who visit my home that they may not eat at my table unless they renounce their ways and come to the light . . . which often leads to hearty conversations.

You can't be a maverick when all you've been is a sidekick.-Joe Biden

Apparently that was the problem.  People making assumptions and coming to their own conclusions as to his motives.

Nice way of being in denial and putting the problem with the people who are offended, not with the person causing it.

Oh, please.  Someone is always offended, aren't they? 

I don't know what this man's intention was, other than what he's stated.  

The guy was a jerk.  If you're going to do "jokes" you should at least try to make them funny.  If I saw a sign like his I wouldn't think it was a joke, I'd assume that some jerk was discriminating against a group of people because he didn't like their politics.

The guy is a bully who discovered that there were legal and monetary consequences to his actions.  That's when it all became a "joke."  The weak defense of the bully, "it was a joke ha ha ha," always comes out when the bully finds out that he could get his butt kicked if he continues his bullying.

Funny, huh?  Do you propose to legislate that now?  Come on.

There are comics I don't think are funny, and they are getting paid!  

I don't think this would have even been a news story if the sign had been from an Obama supporter.  I honestly don't.  

I'm unaware of political views being covered by discrimination laws.  

And just for the record here, I'm not here to make a defense for this guy, this has been worked out in his town already.  My difficultly here is that so many proclaim "racist," and without further evidence it is an unfounded, assumption. 

ATM:

Exactly, and God bless free speech for without it, it would be one hell of a lot tougher to recognize the A-Holes in this world.

Yes, free speech is wonderful.  It's just too bad this parking lot owner felt he had the right to stifle others' freedom of speech...

bigger, the owner does have the right to stifle others' freedom of speech on his private property.  If you come into my store talking about how the government is putting fluoride in the water to keep us down, I might just kick you out.  And I can do that.  I'll lose your business, but that's fine with me.

More bad management with no tolerance of free speech.

True, I suppose.  So when Walmart clerks say "Happy Holidays", people will have to stop screaming about Xians being discriminated against....

I see your point.

insert_name_here - 25.3

If I come into your store wearing a T-shirt saying the government is putting fluoride in the water and you kick me out, you won't only lose my business, you will lose your store.

I will own your store, and you will deserve it for your stupidity.

Really, I mean stupidity!

How dumb do you have to be to risk everything you have worked for your whole life just to prove how stupid you are?

No.  You're wrong, Tim, I'm sorry.  If I tell you to leave, and you don't, I can call the cops and have them remove you for trespassing.  As long as my request that you leave my premises isn't based on racial/religious/sexual discrimination, it's completely legal. I'm under no obligation to let you remain on my premises.

(In my opinion, there's no legitimate moral basis for the government to tell me whom I must serve in my store.  If I don't like black people, it oughta be my business and my problem.  It's a stupid business move, but it's not the government's problem.  That said, we probably will need anti-discrimination laws for a few more decades.)

What are you talking about?

Black people?

Who said anything about black people?

I'm only wearing a T-shirt saying the government is putting fluoride in the water.

You aren't even good at being a racist!

Sorry pal, I grew up in a family store. The cops would not would not remove me. They would ask you what the f**k you think you where doing and try to calm the situation.

If you persisted in your rage, they would likely take you in to try to protect you from yourself.

But then, I grew up in the middle of America, where people have common sense and common decency. If you were in the Klan.... well maybe you have a point.

Oh my God!

Please, everybody... When I called insert_name_here, pal, please don't think I was palling around with a terrorist.

What are you talking about?

I'm talking about different scenarios in which a shopkeeper can refuse to serve a potential customer, or remove a customer from his premises. 

He is free to do so if the customer is, for example, ranting about fluoride.

He is not free to do so if the customer's only "crime" is to have the wrong color skin.  I said that the government has no legitimate basis in arresting you if you refuse to sell something to someone, for whatever reason, including race.

Who said anything about black people?

Racial discrimination often involves black people.

You aren't even good at being a racist!

How was I being a racist?  I said "If I don't like black people," not "I don't like black people."  It's a hypothetical situation.  I do like many black people.  And Asian and Hispanic people as well.  If I knew any Native American people, I'm sure I'd like them too.

Sorry pal, I grew up in a family store. The cops would not would not remove me. They would ask you what the f**k you think you where doing and try to calm the situation.

No.  If I want someone on my property to leave, and I ask them to leave, and they don't, they're trespassing.  That simple.  No one has a right to be on my property unless I want them to be there.

But then, I grew up in the middle of America, where people have common sense and common decency. If you were in the Klan.... well maybe you have a point.

No, I'm not in the Klan.  Hypothetical racist scenarios do not a racist make. 

Last time I checked, common sense and common decency do not allow someone to remain on another's property without license from the owner.

I'll give you credit for a good argument, but you're wrong. I've seen it in practice.

A store, or a parking lot, while it may be private property, is open to the public... and "no shirts, no shoes, no service" may apply because of health code standards, but "no 'fluoride' shirts" and "no Obama stickers" will not fly.

Nice try.

Tim:

You are wrong, Insert is right.

Unless it is a violation of a specific statutory scheme, a private property owner has the right to control his property and the people that come on it, and that includes those who wear stupid t-shirts.

This isn't Iran, yet. Though the left is desperately trying to make it so.

Really, law man?

And you think this is a good thing, that someone with a bumper sticker can be denied parking in an 'otherwise' public parking lot?

You think this is what our forefathers intended when they founded our great nation?

Tim:

Yup, sure do. I sure as hell don't think that our forefathers believed that any one segment of the population should be able to decide what individuals do with their own property, etc.

Read some history and you will see that this is exactly what our forefathers believed.  Patrick Henry might be a good place to start.

Freedom is not clean, it is messy and for YOU to keep your freedoms means everyone has to have the same freedom, whether you like them or not.

But, clearly, you come from a leftist point of view where I come from a Goldwater Conservative point of view.  Merely because I don't LIKE something, doesn't mean the person should be prevented from doing it.

That road leads to tyranny, which so many lefties which us to live under.

(I think this is funny, because I identify with the left side of the spectrum.  Left-libertarian, but left nonetheless.  Maybe we should stop maligning the left, wmolaw.)

Insert:

Once you place "libertarian" in your descriptor, you can't be the type of leftie I am describing.

The parking lot owner has the right to refuse service to people he disapproves of.  Those people have the right to sue him for all they can.  Chances are pretty good that the owner would lose, but sometimes that's the price of being a self-righteous jerk.